Monday, June 20, 2005
Now there's modernism and there pseudo-intellectual modernism
Dear Iranian Progressives,
Your good people, I know, you want to build a better Iran and all that.
All good things on their own. I just want to say one thing:
A Handshake? For goodness sake! You think that doing the opposite of what the status quo is rebeliion. Give me a break!
Let me put it this way. I was born and brought up in the west. Lived here all my life.
I never would let any individual shake my mother or sisters hand. Thats a red line for every muslim who lives here.
At what point are you going to stop making idiots of yourselves and actually start talking issues
Your good people, I know, you want to build a better Iran and all that.
All good things on their own. I just want to say one thing:
A Handshake? For goodness sake! You think that doing the opposite of what the status quo is rebeliion. Give me a break!
Let me put it this way. I was born and brought up in the west. Lived here all my life.
I never would let any individual shake my mother or sisters hand. Thats a red line for every muslim who lives here.
At what point are you going to stop making idiots of yourselves and actually start talking issues
Comments:
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You wouldn't allow your mother or sister to shake hands with somebody? I came to this site because I saw your post at muslimwakeup.com, where you were talking about the violence against women in Egypt. you said:
"It's a sad but historical prescdent and is not just restricted to Arab or Islamic culture. In fact I would argue it a remnant of the Jahiliya that has never gone away."
You were talking about how women are routinely raped and beaten to humiliate the men who consider themselves their protectors. I am a westerner, I am not religious, but
I can understand a man's need to protect the women of his family, however I don't understand the purpose of telling my wife, for instance, that she isnt allowed to shake hands with men. Could you explain how this is justified? is it a commandment from The Qu'ran? How is this different from the poor treatment of women as second-class citizens or slaves in Jahaliya?
"It's a sad but historical prescdent and is not just restricted to Arab or Islamic culture. In fact I would argue it a remnant of the Jahiliya that has never gone away."
You were talking about how women are routinely raped and beaten to humiliate the men who consider themselves their protectors. I am a westerner, I am not religious, but
I can understand a man's need to protect the women of his family, however I don't understand the purpose of telling my wife, for instance, that she isnt allowed to shake hands with men. Could you explain how this is justified? is it a commandment from The Qu'ran? How is this different from the poor treatment of women as second-class citizens or slaves in Jahaliya?
# posted by 
: 12:36 AM
: 12:36 AM
Because I love them. The Hadith and Sunnah say that women and men shouldn't physically touch unless they are mehram, or considered so.
Mehram means all those people that are literally not strangers. Thus your blood relations , close freinds etc.
Not a bloody reporter for the BBc to show hhim modern you are.
Would you ask your wife to kiss othermen full on the lips? Well its not culturally acceptable for you, thats your redline, are you therefore making her a slave?
Mehram means all those people that are literally not strangers. Thus your blood relations , close freinds etc.
Not a bloody reporter for the BBc to show hhim modern you are.
Would you ask your wife to kiss othermen full on the lips? Well its not culturally acceptable for you, thats your redline, are you therefore making her a slave?
Neither will I. People need to understand that Islam may not be practiced according to their whims and fancies. If one doesn't understand, one must seek to understand. Well, some people actually let their daughters and wives mix with unmarried men. And they want us to wake up?
Ok, I can understand how you may have a different line, my wife and I would not passionately kiss a stranger, you and your wife would not shake hands with the opposite sex, ok, what I have trouble with is this:
"Well, some people actually let their daughters and wives mix with unmarried men..."
My daughters, Yes I take care who they mix with. My wife and I, however are both adults and our relationship is totally voluntary. While I would not kiss a stranger, it is out of respect for my wife, and vice versa. I don't "Let" my wife do anything, we are equals. that is where a lot of westerners like me don't understand, no matter how we endeavor to, especially those of us under 65 years old or so. I understand that in the past, western women were poorly treated, second-class citizens, but today we have a different view. Is it not possible that in the Muslim world, the view that women can be equal citizens, requiring neither protection nor punishment? Perhaps this is where the Iranian youth are coming from when they want to shake hands with strangers, and as I understand it (very poorly, no doubt) that Hadith and Sunnah are not immutable, not on the same level as the Quran, so their commandments may change over time, no?
Thank you for your polite response, I am really just interested in communicating between our cultures, if I am offensive at all, please forgive me on account of my inexperience with Islam.
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"Well, some people actually let their daughters and wives mix with unmarried men..."
My daughters, Yes I take care who they mix with. My wife and I, however are both adults and our relationship is totally voluntary. While I would not kiss a stranger, it is out of respect for my wife, and vice versa. I don't "Let" my wife do anything, we are equals. that is where a lot of westerners like me don't understand, no matter how we endeavor to, especially those of us under 65 years old or so. I understand that in the past, western women were poorly treated, second-class citizens, but today we have a different view. Is it not possible that in the Muslim world, the view that women can be equal citizens, requiring neither protection nor punishment? Perhaps this is where the Iranian youth are coming from when they want to shake hands with strangers, and as I understand it (very poorly, no doubt) that Hadith and Sunnah are not immutable, not on the same level as the Quran, so their commandments may change over time, no?
Thank you for your polite response, I am really just interested in communicating between our cultures, if I am offensive at all, please forgive me on account of my inexperience with Islam.
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